Posts by Sea Breeze

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

A sinner in hell does not have zōḗ aiṓnios, only an endless bíos. This distinction is forgotten by the JWs when they argue from the biblical statement that "eternal life," or zōḗ aiṓnios, is the privilege of the saved, then how "the wicked" can exist forever. However, this contrived opposition lacks the requirement of scholarly exegesis and is obviously an eisegesis born out of a compulsion to conform to the annihilationism adopted from Adventists.
The opposite of "eternal life," zōḗ aiṓnios, is not "eternal non-existence" in the sense of annihilation, but "eternal death," where "death" does not mean annihilation but separation from God. Thus, damnation is eternal 'bíos', mere existence without true "life" (zōḗ), i.e., without a relationship with God.

Like a small child that has abused its mother who loves it the most, we have all gone astray and haven't regarded the enormity of God and his creation as something and someone to be cherished and something to be grateful for.

Since our sin is against the eternal goodness of God, our punishment is eternal. Every day for eternity the lost or perished soul will experience existence without any trace of the goodness of God.

This is what Jesus warned people about over and over.

how can ye escape the damnation of hell? - Jesus

It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. - Jesus

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

Where do you find eternal souls in the Bible?

do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul - Jesus

It does say later that the soul and body can be "destroyed" in Hell, but that greek word also means to lose or perish, but not non existence.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

@VH7

Personally, I wish it was as you say is possible. But, I could never preach on that wishful thinking because it is simply not supported in scripture.

If it was just one story, maybe there might be an argument. But when you look at the overwhelming quantity of verses describing conscious punishment to different groups of the wicked in the OT and especially the NT, it is simply not possible to conclude it is anything other than what a plain reading would produce in the mninds of an average reader.

And, getting back to the topic: When you read what the first and second generation believers who were trained by the apostles wrote, then the likelihood of mine and yours wishful thinking being true drops to ZERO.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

Firstly, eternal torment of eternal human souls is not found in the New Testament.

@VH7

Jude 7 KJV

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

From the first page of the Bible until the last, Scripture consistently teaches that humans have an immaterial part that will last forever. It is not possible for the soul, or spirit, to be annihilated. So, the only real question is where does the conscious part of us go when we die? That's really all that matters at the end of the day.... or our end of days. The answer is either family-style fellowship with God or the place prepared for the devil and his angels. Those are the only two choices we have. And thanks to God manifest as Jesus of Nazereth, we DO now have a choice.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels - Mt. 25: 41

It is not wise to minimize, discount or ignore the wanrings of a man who said that he would resurrect himself from the dead, and then did it.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

@ Boogerman - So you're saying that if I willfully sin for 840 months, (70 years) the God which you worship is going to punish me terribly - for all of eternity????????

I'm not saying that. A man who raised himself from the dead said that. Why would he lie?

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

@VH

The devil is only sparsely mentioned in the OT but Jesus talked a lot about him. IT IS NOT SURPRISING THAT JESUS WOULD EXPAND UPON THE NATURE OF HELL AS WELL in the NT.

Christians use the NT as their primary textbook and Jesus as their primary teacher. And Jesus warned over and over about a literal, eternal hell (see Matthew 3:7, Matthew 3:12, Matthew 5:29-30, Matthew 18:9-12, Matthew 13:38-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46, Mark 9:43-47, Luke 12:5, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Jude 7, Revelation 14:11, Revelation 20:13-15, and Revelation 21:8).

What Jesus said can't be ignored and the early Christians took him at his word that he meant what he said, and said what he meant.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

@VH7

First of all as Christians, we have more than ample teaching in the New Testament to establish the doctrine of a literal, eternal hell (see Matthew 3:7, Matthew 3:12, Matthew 5:29-30, Matthew 18:9-12, Matthew 13:38-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46, Mark 9:43-47, Luke 12:5, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Jude 7, Revelation 14:11, Revelation 20:13-15, and Revelation 21:8).

This New Testament teaching is quite consistent, though, with the Old Testament. First, the OT contains many references to God’s wrath. He is often said to be angry at wickedness (see, for example, Deuteronomy 32:22, Psalm 2:12, and Psalm 18:7). Psalm 7:11 is one of many verses that indicate this indignation or anger is directed toward those who perpetrate this wickedness (“the wicked”).

The OT prophets repeatedly speak of a time when the Holy One would have His “day” — a day of justice in which He would express His anger toward sin and visit judgment on sinners. They referred to this as “The Day of the Lord.” (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 1:15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5).

Daniel also speaks of eternal punishment:

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. - Daniel 12: 2

“There is no peace,” says the LORD, “for the wicked.” - Is. 48: 22

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

I don't see any mention of it, or any concept here.

Scripture says that when Rachael's soul was in the process of departing she died.

And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin. - Gen 35: 18

Every man woman and child who ever lived will be conscious for eternity.... somewhere.

Jesus told Nicodemas THREE TIMES that you have to be born again to go to a pleasant place where God's Kingdom Rules after you die. But the WT tells its members not to get born again.

So, whom we believe will dertermine where we spend eternity. Jesus repeatedly urges people to believe him instead of others. (See Revelation 6:9-11 & 1 Samuel 28: 7-20)

Especially after he predicted that he would raise himself from the dead, while he was dead.... and then did it; huge numbers of people kinda did the math and decided that even though their Jewish relatives would reject them forever, they would believe him anyway. It is difficult (but not impossible) to not believe a man who said that he woudl resurrect himself from the dead, and then did it.

John 6:47

Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:29

Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

John 6:69

We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.”

John 6:64

But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.

John 6:44

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:35

Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.

Acts 16:31

They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

John 20:31

but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Romans 10:10

for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

John 9:22

His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jews; for the Jews had already agreed that if anyone confessed Him to be Christ, he was to be put out of the synagogue.

JW's will put anyone out of their church if they talk too much about Jesus and especially if they encourage others to accept the new covenant "for the forgiveness of sins". (Mt., 26: 27-28)

The Wt is a giant Satanic deception and should easily be recognized as such just from the false predictions alone.

The fact that they tell people to do the opposite of what Jesus said to do is overwhelming evidence that JW's are nothing more than anti-christs.

128

Why Do JW's Believe that Hell is Symbolic When the Disciples of the Apostles believed it Was Literal ?

by Sea Breeze in

looks like the early christians believed jesus when he warned about hell over 40 times.

why don't the jw's do the same?.

from “the epistle of barnabas” (70-130ad).

Sea Breeze

Jesus warned people over 40 times not to choose to go to Hell.

Man is a tripartite being just like scripture says.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12

God died:

Act_20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

The biblical definition of death is separation:

And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin. - Gen 35: 18

When Jesus died, his soul/spirit became separated from his body. He died. When he was dead “he went and preached unto the spirits in prison” (hell) and then he raised himself from the dead…. while he was dead.

While dead, his body would appear as sleeping to an observer, would have no brain function and so his body would know nothing at all.

All souls who sin will also become separated from their body (die) (Ez. 18: 4). Jesus warned people not to choose to go to a place called hell.

Jesus told Nicodemas THREEE TIMES that you must be born again. Yet, the WT says, not to be born again. By choosing whom we believe, we choose where we will spend eternity.

16

Heretic!!!

by cellomould in

after the roman church had consolidated its power in the early middle ages, heretics came to be regarded as enemies of society.

the crime of heresy was defined as a deliberate denial of an article of truth of the catholic faith, and a public and obstinate persistence in that alleged error.

at this time, there was a sense of christian unity among townspeople and rulers alike, and most of them agreed with the church that heretics seemed to threaten society itself.. however, the repression of heresy remained unorganized, and with the large scale heresies in the 11th and 12th centuries, pope gregory ix instituted the papal inquisition in 1231 for the apprehension and trial of heretics.

Sea Breeze

"From the birth of Popery in 606 to the present time, it is estimated by careful and credible historians, that more than fifty millions of the human family, have been slaughtered for the crime of heresy by popish persecutors, an average of more than forty thousand religious murders for every year of the existence of popery." -- "History of Romanism," pp. 541, 542. New York: 1871.

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